A Brown Man in the West: The Ugly Truth
August 27th, 2008
We hear money greatly increases a desi man’s
chances of dating a white woman.
[Blogger: S.I.] Terribly remiss in posting, but we’ve been busy. However, this little tidbit should keep you going.
It’s all based on the theory that in the US, Indian men have a harder time finding women than white men. Even assuming equal looks, coolness, popularity, etc., it simply will be harder for a brown man because we are not considered “the ideal,” or even sexual beings at times.
This is not a complaint. This is just how it is. It’s the US, a white country, and we accept that. Moreover, we’ve found that East Coast cities and big cities in the midwest, like the always-welcoming Chicago, give the desi man a much better shot than places out west, such as Las Vegas (where Sonny lives) and LA (where I live).
We’ve run it by other minorities, and they agree. We’ve run it by our white friends, and they will come up with any reason to act like it doesn’t exist. I guess they don’t want the cognitive dissonance of knowing that there are determinations made based on race and that they have an advantage in some regards, even though they don’t think of themselves as racially anything.
Read the ugly truth and see for yourself.
Sonny: btw
my friend’s fiancé
agreed with our theory 100%
every single guy in there
was like “dude you’re full of shit, stop making excuses”
so i said
“ok fine, let’s get the girls’ opinions”
and they admitted it
it was gratifying
me: HA
fucking knew it
this is some white girl from the west coast?
Sonny: not originally
but yeah
her and her friend
both agreed
the way they explained it
and i told them to be as honest as possible
just so the others would understand
me: from the start
how did the topic come up that night
with the guys
then how’d you tell the girls
Sonny: well my friend
wanted to set me up
with some girl
and i told him that’s fine
except i wanted to clarify
whether she dates men of color
same thing i did with my secretary re her friend
and he was all like
“listen man, i don’t know why you’re always hung up on that stuff”
“with that attitude you’re never going to get any girl”
“you’re counting yourself out before the game has even started”
“women don’t think like that”
etc etc
you’ve heard it all before i’m sure
me: AAAAAHHHHH
that’s word for word
what my buddy said to me
these fuckers are damn blind to reality
oh to be a dub
how simple the world must seem
Sonny: yeah
so anyway
i was like
“fine”
“why don’t we ask the girls what they think”
just for some context
and both were raised and went to college in the So Cal area
and both were sorority girls
so
me: the deck was stacked
hahaha
Sonny: i mean they were pretty white
not girls who are usually open
to dating indos
Sonny: so i ask them
and they’re both good friends of mine
so i told them to be honest
brutally if necessary
me: haha
Sonny: so basically they said that
they’re just not attracted
physically
to most indian guys
indians
and asians
and by indian i mean
that includes banglas, sri lankans, paks
basically south asian features
that in addition to the fact that
they’ve had limited interactions with them
because of the segregation you have
in universities especially
but also in general
me: so they just came out with it
Sonny: i mean
you know
and i know
that is the case
i’ve known that for years
it’s no surprise
me: I wonder if they’ve ever found anyone attractive who’s not white or black
again, it’s not ‘unfair’
it’s just how it is
Sonny: they said yes
but it’s very rare
but that’s the nature of attraction
you can’t help what you’re attracted to
me: yeah
it’s just how it is
Sonny: i could’ve told you this years ago
me: clearly
Sonny: they were overly concerned
about sounding racist
but i made it clear
that they should speak freely
one of the girls also said that
and i thought this was interesting
the only indian men she really saw
were on TV (and thus likely not depicted in an accurate fashion)
or like TAs
and grad students
generally FOBs
me: great
Sonny: yeah
let’s say you go to a large public college
i mean
let’s face it
that’s the dominant
face of who we are to many of them if they don’t directly have Indo friends
grad students who put a passing emphasis on appearance and hygiene
naturally that’s poor advertising
i think there’s also the sense that
they didn’t agree with this
but they mentioned it as a factor with women they know
and of course both you and i know this
the media and popular perception of indian and asian men
is far from flattering
remember that article i sent you
on why asian/indian men and black girls are always out in the cold
perceptions of our lack of masculinity
etc
me: yeah
Sonny: over simplification
but
essentially we’re not considered “man enough”
me: we’re at least NOT seen as having desired characteristics here
Sonny: yeah
me: none of them
Sonny: and again
you and i both knew this
or at least
we had some idea of this
me: absolutely
Sonny: i know i have for years
me: internally
we always knew
Sonny: and again let me make clear
i don’t judge anyone
for harboring these feelings
you are attracted to what you are attracted to
that’s nature
it may not be fair
but it’s the hand we’ve been dealt
me: same
it’s not like I’m attracted to all things equally
I’d rather have a darker girl
e.g.
see the dubs
they think we’re saying “you’re racist”
so loathe to accept responsibility
for anything
and for once we’re not even blaming them
it’s just how it is
Sonny: yeah
well anyway
after all this
finally all the guys understood
then the argument turned into
“well but you’re not like those guys”
“you’re pretty much white”
which is understandable
but
i think they understood
my one friend was just like
“man so…how do you live?”
HAHAHHAHAHA
that summed it all up for me
“welcome to my world”
me: HAHAHA
Sonny: anyway
we both knew all this before
so it’s not like it’s going to affect anything
me: but just to hear a dub admit it
Sonny: yeah
it was gratifying
me: I appreciate that your female friends were honest
they get some points for that
Sonny: as i said
the science of attraction
is what it is
i don’t hold it against them
now if they were indian….
don’t even get me started there
Tags: Assimilation Issues, Las Vegas, Los Angeles Life
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August 28th, 2008 at 5:31 am
even if this phenomenon does exist, it’s just a matter of finding girls who are amenable to your ethnic background. LOTS of brown guys I know from high school, college, and law school date outside the race; in fact, MOST brown guys I know are dating non-brown girls. I think this has to do more with brown-girl frigidity and antiquated cultural norms that dictate a brown girl remain shy - lest she become labeled a whore - rather than our brown guys’ preferences, but that’s a conversation for another post.
as a 25-year-old brown guy, I can honestly say that I don’t think my race has ever held me back from dating someone I really wanted to date. rather, I think that my race has been a contributing factor in that white girls often think we’re “exotic” because of our backgrounds, yet “normal” because we know how to use forks and don’t speak with accents.
August 28th, 2008 at 11:41 am
Anecdotally speaking, you should move to the NYC area where I constantly see average to good looking Indian/Desi/Brown/whatever you want to call them guys walking by with white women.
You’re right about the media portrayals though. I never once fantasized about an Indian man or even though of one as a sexual being because while growing up, I didn’t know any. There weren’t any in my high school, I didn’t watch Bollywood films and there simply weren’t any in the media (despite wild caricatures like Fischer Stevens in Short Circuit who wasn’t even Indian to begin with!).
September 7th, 2008 at 10:37 am
A few things come to mind reading this;
1. Some women date with a view to long-term-relationship, live-ins or marriage. Percentage wise, if desi men are honest with themselves, well, they are generally just interested in dating and bedding white women, not marrying them. We all know that when marriage comes into play, the desi parivar steps in and takes over in a HUGE way, be it arranged, assisted or “love” marriage”.
White women are starting to become privy to that. There’s even a few websites warning us not to fall in love with desi men.
This warning weighs heavier on white women in the west than our black sisters, because, well, again, we know how well a black bahu would go over with your typical desi mom, mom-in-law-to-be….
2. Looks.
I will admit that in general I don’t find very many desi men attractive, but when they are attractive, they are VERY HANDSOME. In India there is of course more of a selection and you do find some very handsome men there. Generally I don’t find black men’s faces attractive either, but their physiques are usually much more attractive than white or desi men’s physique, and again, when you do find an attractive black male face, well it tends to be VERY HANDSOME.
White men? I generally don’t find them to be attractive either.
Nor am I attracted to Latinos, generally.
Just my two cents but the most attractive people on the planet are Arabs or Mediterreneans.
Would I date a desi, black, latino, or white man? Of course I would and they wouldn’t have to look like Mahadeva in order for me to do so. When it comes to dating and relating, it’s about more than looks, though granted, looks to play a part.
But as far as marriage, I am wary of committing life long to someone who’s cultural background differs to mine in a major way and who’s family may be all up in our business all the time and expectations of me as a wife and daughter-in-law go above and beyond what are his expectations as a husband and son-in-law.
But then you are only taking about dating and bedding here aren’t you?
Well alot of women post college years take all of the above into account, as does your desi mama.
September 8th, 2008 at 8:46 am
Dude, you gotta check out this ad for Bharatmatrimony.com at
http://jagadanandadas.sulekha.com/
I don’t know how many white women are G.S.H.
September 8th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
Okay, let me be the dissenting voice of dubiety here. Indian dudes need to chill the F out. There’s no such statement as, “White girls are not attracted to Indian dudes.” Yeah, yeah, Indians aren’t a cultural ideal in the west, the bluest eye, prejudicial standards of beauty, wah, wah. What it comes down to is there is no monolothic identity for the White Woman.
Some white chicks are vapid Lauren Conrads who want their Brody Jenners. They’re Barbies who want their Harvard Ken dolls. But for every Elle Woods there are Ganesh knows how many Sarah Mclaughlans who are frumpteen times more sexy and sensual than the generic ass white chicks you guys seem to be talking about. And Sarah loves her some Indian mirror balls.
Getting the white girl has less to do with your skin tone and more to do with your personality. I’m not going to get Gossip Girl. Not because I’m Indian but because we’re fundamentally different people. Shes’ cool; I’m warm. She’s hot; I’m not.
But maybe I’ll get the girl at Borders flipping through the David Geogehegan book, listening to n.e.r.d. on her iPod while waiting for the midnite showing of The Rocky Horror Picture Show. Stop cruising for vapid Mischa Bartons and set your sites on Rachel Bilsens. Down to mars girls are willing to go macaca. Because once you go brown…you eventually go back to white and Jewish, but that doesn’t mean we didn’t get in there first.
September 10th, 2008 at 10:36 am
@ Mahotma: I would like to say I agree with you, but I can’t.
I tried to think that way, but time and time again, I see it’s not the case. Again, this is specific to the Left Coast. I’ve lived in DC, Atlanta, and Chicago. And I generally agreed with what you wrote above. But once I came to LA, things were starkly different. My Indo buddies, who do quite well for themselves, also agreed. They’d reaped the benefits in NYC and Chicago, but in LA, the vibe was not even close.
Again, it’s not unfair. It’s just life, and the sooner we understand it, the better off we’ll be. Am I saying a white girl will never like a brown man in LA? Of course not. However, let it be known that I personally attend to the minority females and have found much more reciprocation than I ever did with white women in the same city. It’s all about 80/20. The 20% of women that give me 80% of the attention are where I’ll be.
September 13th, 2008 at 9:50 am
This rant is kind of racist.
What is your obsession with white women?
There are ALL KINDS of women in the USA.
And didn’t I see you complaining about desi women not going in for desi dudes either? Well, with posts like this one, who can blame them?
September 14th, 2008 at 3:17 am
Being a brown man in the west, I do agree with the ugly truth.
September 15th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
@ GSH
Kind of racist? Not sure I agree. Racial? Absolutely.
Obsession with white women? I’ll have you know my preference is actually NON-white women. And most Indian men I know, if not all, would conjure up images of an Indian girl if asked who their ideal woman is.
But Indian guys in the US often grow up in upper middle class hoods. And the majority of residents, and thus women, in such locales are…WHITE! Thus, Indian men naturally wonder about themselves and white women.
There are all kinds of women in the USA? Really? Are you sure about that? I need some kind of proof, that’s a bold claim.
As for the whole “who can blame them” thing: the frustration of desi men regarding the way they are treated by desi women comes AFTER they have been maligned by women of their race, NOT the other way around. Are desi men and culture perfect? HA, far from it. However, I’ve never known brown men to exclude their own women from the selection. Women are pretty much always in charge of such situations, whether they want to admit it or not.
However, GSH, if you are a desi woman, please, feel free to exclude brown men from your tastes. The few of us who can stand to listen to you won’t mind.
September 20th, 2008 at 12:10 am
I don’t know what’s the big deal…yes you are at a disadvantage compared to a white guy if you want to date a white girl but you are at an advantage when dating a desi girl! i’m sure loads of black guys wish they were in your place, lots of them prefer desi girls but our girls do not give them a chance.
i think you are focusing too much on a factor you can’t change (not being white) rather than other factors you can change like being a more approachable guy, becoming more fit, whatever.
also i think the selection of desi girls you hang out with is really skewed ..i’ve been involved in our south asian organization and we’ve had only a few interracial couples, definitely not even close to a majority or even a tenth of the total.
September 21st, 2008 at 9:45 am
I have multiple bones to pick here. First off, black men do well. My black friends and I have discussed this, and while they may be at a disadvantage in other areas because of society’s perception of them, when it comes to getting women, they are most certainly considered sexual beings. Perhaps that’s all they’re considered to be good for, but when it comes to attracting females (or even being on the radar), they have us beat, solidly. Perhaps not with Indian women, but I doubt that’s a hangup when you have a solid stream elsewhere.
As for things to be able to change, it’s nullified because the Indian girls don’t go for white guys with skills. They go for schlubs, out of shape socially unaware culturally vapid dudes. A man who has zero advantages over a typical desi guy, aside from being white. If she’s dating George Clooney, trust that we’d all understand. And I don’t speak from the perspective of an unattractive man, my looks / personality are def not problems.
As for things being skewed, I’d agree with that, esp out here in the Western US. But I saw this happen many times even in other cities. This is really only true of the very attractive desi girls, who seem to think themselves “too good” for brown men.
October 14th, 2008 at 6:37 pm
“As for things being skewed, I’d agree with that, esp out here in the Western US. But I saw this happen many times even in other cities. This is really only true of the very attractive desi girls, who seem to think themselves “too good” for brown men.”
Just OK looking to “pretty cute” desi guys expect to be able to date all manner of super hot desi women and in holding out for them, pass up all of us OK and average looking desi ladies. You guys are too picky and too and think you’re all that.
October 16th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
If that’s true, I’d ask: are the average looking desi women taking some steps themselves to get a man they’d like? There’s nothing wrong with that. Actually, it can be quite flattering for a man to find a woman taking initiative, and if he’s ever been a little curious about her, he just may take that time to explore.
Note that it’s not exactly rational to expect a relatively good looking member of either sex to approach just an “OK” member of the opposite sex. I’m a strong believer in empowering women. So, empower yourselves and put yourselves out there a little. You never know.
October 17th, 2008 at 11:46 am
We have empowered ourselves and put ourselves out there and that is why we are no longer getting rejected by desi guys who think we are “ok” but are getting loved by non-desi guys who think we are “exotic”. Thankyou very much!
October 17th, 2008 at 5:08 pm
Haha, you’re welcome. Hey, if desi men only think you’re average, but you find a guy outside who is into you, that’s great. It’s one of the times we have no problem with Indian women seeking white men (I assumed they were the ones who found you “exotic”). Good for you, and I’m being serious when I say that.
October 17th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
Why stop at white men? All sorts of men, short of desis, find us exotic. And I suppose the only reason you are all for that is because sitting from the throne your mother installed you on you feel you are entitled to so much more than “just an average desi girl” right?
Well good luck finding your hot domestic goddess. Whether average or above, we desi women are sooooo done with mama’s boys.
October 19th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
1) Not a mama’s boy.
2) Don’t want a woman who is domestic. Would prefer if she’s not. I think lots of Indian men want an equal, but I’ll give you that I may be in the minority on this one.
3) It sounds like you want men to “settle”… No one, man or woman, should settle. I just feel that they should be screened out “fairly,” if that makes sense. Almost all Indian men I know WANT an Indian woman, so they’re not anxious to cut brown girls out. Usually, the opposite is true when it comes to brown women and Indo men.
Hey, it’d be great if I were wrong.
October 20th, 2008 at 1:54 am
When a desi man marries a desi woman, one of them is settling. Settling is unavoidable. For the desi man, he usually ends up with someone who is closer to his own level because he was unable to score the Ivy-League-graduate, Aiswarya look-a-like, professional, working, earning-in-6-digits-but-still-cooks-like-ma desi woman of his fantasy. Nope, instead he ends up with just another average desi woman. Why? Because he himself is just an average desi man. For the desi woman though the settling is of a different kind because while they may be an average desi woman of modest (but pleasant) looks, average job and income, still, if they would’ve married anyone but a desi man, they would have been treated with respect. But the desi husband will always think he “settled”. The delusional fantasy that somehow, even being an average desi man, still, he shoulda, woulda, coulda had an above average desi woman will always haunt him. And quite frankly that is the only reason arranged marriages still exist in our desi diaspora. Without that, you guys would not be able to get married at all, despite all your delusions of grandeur about “deserving” an above average desi woman. If you deserved her, she would be your’s. Unfortunately due to racism many nice desi women who were loved and adored by their non-desi boyfriends were all but forced at gunpoint to marry some uncouth desi dude with zero respect for them. That’s changing though. We are now are now learning to stand up for true love and that’s why alot of you guys have to head back to India just to find a bride. Neither the American desi hotties nor the notties want you!!! Therefore it’s back to Patna.
October 20th, 2008 at 9:37 am
Hahaha, if you say so. Props on your fire though.
October 20th, 2008 at 11:01 am
And the sad thing is, we would be willing to date you if you guys were a little bit (ok, ALOT) more humble.